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F1 being ruined by failing tyres?

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F1 being ruined by failing tyres?

Post by Guest on 5/14/2013, 3:47 am

So, what do you all think of this issue raised in the BBC story as follows:

Red Bull boss on Pirelli tyres: 'F1 nothing to do with racing any more'
By Andrew Benson Chief F1 writer

Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz has criticised the state of Formula 1, saying it is "nothing to do with racing any more". The team have been vociferous opponents of the fast-degrading Pirelli tyres and have been pressuring the Italian company to produce more durable rubber. "Everyone knows what happens here," Mateschitz told Austrian journalists.

"Under the circumstances, we can neither get the best out of our car nor our drivers." Mateschitz, a man of great influence in F1 who runs two teams in Red Bull and Toro Rosso, said: "This is a competition in tyre management. Real racing looks different." Analysis Image of Gary Anderson Gary Anderson BBC F1 technical analyst

The tyres are part of the car and some teams are using them better than others. Barcelona is always very tough on the tyres - and back in the tyre-war days sometimes you would get two or maybe three laps out of the softer tyres and then be five or six seconds a lap slower for the next four or five laps before they cleaned up and you could push again.

Tyre management has always been part of F1, no matter what anyone will tell you, and there has never been a time when a driver could push flat-out for the entire race distance. He met the sport's commercial boss Bernie Ecclestone after Sunday's Spanish Grand Prix, in which Red Bull driver Sebastian Vettel came fourth, but did not reveal what they discussed. He added: "There is no more real qualifying and fighting for the pole, as everyone is just saving tyres for the race.

"If we would make the best of our car we would have to stop eight or 10 times during a race, depending on the track." Pirelli entered F1 in 2011 with the mandate to produce more exciting racing by increasing the number of pit stops, but Mateschitz said they had gone too far. "Yes, it was the target to get more excitement into the races by more stops for tyre changes, but not that much," he said.

"This is now a different situation from the original intention." After five races, Vettel is leading the championship by four points from Lotus's Kimi Raikkonen. The Finn was second in Spain behind Ferrari's Fernando Alonso, who is third in the championship, 17 points behind Vettel. Both Vettel and Alonso have won twice this year and Raikkonen once. Vettel said after Sunday's race: "We're not going the pace of the car, we're going the pace of the tyres and obviously we do something to make the tyres wear more." Raikkonen, whose Lotus car is regarded as one of the best at looking after its tyres, said: "I don't really think it's any different to last year. Obviously I wasn't there the year before (2011) but they had a lot of pit stops (then) also. So that's the way it is and it's the same for everybody."

Pirelli motorsport boss Paul Hembery admitted after the race in Spain that four pit stops, the number Alonso made on his way to victory, was too many. He said the company would this week consider whether to change their approach - either by making more conservative choices, or changing the tyres' design - from the British Grand Prix at the end of next month. Asked about the prospect of the tyres changing, Lotus team principal Eric Boullier said: "In some ways it's not fair but we have to deal with it. Everyone has the same tyres." He added: "There was a slight change here that was supposed to please the most complaining team."

That is a reference to Pirelli's decision to make a more durable version of the 'hard' tyre than it had used in the first four races. The tyre made its debut in Spain and was the preferred choice in the race for most teams, including Red Bull and Ferrari. Hembery said: "We're only doing what we're being asked to do. We were asked to replicate Canada (2010). "Some of you - some of you - would like us to do a one-stop where the tyres aren't a factor. You can go back to processional racing where the qualifying positions are the end positions." He added: "It's rather bizarre. We're only doing what we've done for the last two years and we don't understand why you're so excited. "It's bizarre unless you all want us to give Red Bull the tyres to win the championship. It's pretty clear. If we did that, there would be one team that would benefit and it would be them."

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Re: F1 being ruined by failing tyres?

Post by LethalHoudini on 5/14/2013, 11:36 am

Oh my god where do I start LMAO.

There has always been things to manage in F1 whether it has been tyre, fuel tune to save tyre or give lap time etc etc. When I think back over the years I like to see some pit stops and strategy involved however I have to see tyres falling apart in the way some have. There is a difference in opinion as to why this has happened some say it's because some teams go with to aggressive tunes and run the tyres too long and hard and some say it's delamination. I actually dont mind the pit stops as since they took away refueling I think they have tried to get some strategy back by way of tyres. I think they have other things that are more concerning like you can get your car into Q3 and if you wish you don't even have to send the car out to do any competitive laps which to me is crazy. The other thing that annoys me is the teams are allowed to not even put enough fuel to run the whole race at race pace and do fuel saving laps which I guess can be argued as a strategy but I think that robs us of far more racing than any other single thing in the F1 rules. The cars have to have be a certain weight so why not make all the teams put a certain weight of fuel which is enough to run the race at race pace, then that would increase the use of the driver needing to manage tyres etc than now because at the moment they all know they are going to save a certain amount of tyre because the fuel load dictates it. F1 always has been and always will be a circus and I do love it but it has some very annoying things about it. I also find it funny that they are on an economy cost cutting exercise then come up with a new engine unit that will be 1 of the most expensive that F1 has ever seen. My point being that teams have had and will have to make people redundant and out of a job but hey we got a new engine design that costs a bundle to develop and put in place. I would also like to see the FIA grow some balls, if they pass a part to be used and the said part passes all the safety tests just cos another team didn't think of it and complains the FIA should say the part is legal and ok not all these bs meetings and buckle under the pressure.







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Re: F1 being ruined by failing tyres?

Post by Owen0501 on 5/14/2013, 2:23 pm

Pirelli have one to their senses - they're bringing the more resilient tyres forward to Canada

Pirelli have accelerated plans to introduce changes to their controversial 2013 tyres, with the revisions to now be rolled out in time for the Canadian GP in two races' time.

Under fire from both fans and drivers alike, Pirelli announced almost immediately after Sunday's heavily-criticised Spanish GP that they would make changes to their range of compounds for the British GP at the end of June.

However, those changes to their slick tyres will now be introduced one race earlier - in Montreal - with Hembery revealing the amended rubber will feature structural changes which combine elements from both last year and this year's products in a bid to beef up their durability.

"The sooner we could do it the better," Hembery said of the decision bring forward the introduction of new tyres.

"Four stops was not what we wanted, and to make a change we needed to do it as soon as possible so teams have time to react for the rest of the season.

"The tyre from Canada onwards will combine elements of the structure from last year, with some elements of this year's tyre.

"The fine details are being sorted and will be finalised in the next couple of days.

"But we wanted to make sure people understood we had noted their comments, so we've reacted and we'll make sure we get back to where we were last season, which is two to three stops per race."

Hembery had admitted himself on Monday that "if we make a change it will be seen that we're making tyres for Red Bull in particular" given the World Champions have been the most outspoken against the tyres, with even their billionaire owner Dietrich Mateschitz joining the debate over the past 24 hours.

However, such has been the barrage of criticism launched at Pirelli from fans, media and pundits over the past 48 hours that making a step back in their deliberately aggressive approach had become unavoidable.

The decision to bring forward the changes by one race to Canada means the 2013 slick tyres in their current form will only be in use for one further grand prix, Monaco.

Pirelli have already selected the supersoft and soft tyres for the unique challenges of the Principality's streets - a circuit that is generally quite easy on tyres and normally sees each car make two pit stops.
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Re: F1 being ruined by failing tyres?

Post by LethalHoudini on 5/14/2013, 2:30 pm

The other thing that is funny is that Pirelli are getting all the stick but they are providing what Bernie asked them for.






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Re: F1 being ruined by failing tyres?

Post by luongo27 on 5/14/2013, 6:08 pm

you know it's getting bad when in some places it's being called the Pirelli tyre challenge Smile



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Re: F1 being ruined by failing tyres?

Post by Guest on 5/14/2013, 8:24 pm

Very interesting to hear comments from the heart of F1 in the world. Thanks.

I'm really perplexed too guys, since Perelli were literally told to change their compound by the FIA and, of course, they fear the FIA because they don't want to lose their monopoly over selling tyres to F1. Further, why is Red Bull in such a tizzy? They lead the WDC and the WCC!

I didn't know about the teams developing parts and aero packages and then the FIA declaring them illegal by secret meeting. Seems like it should be more clear cut than that. I do remember the whole rear diffuser controversy a few years ago. In some ways, it's good that there are such sweeping provisions in the sporting regulations that say something to the effect of "banned...if detrimental to the sport." because it allows the "sport" (i.e. collection of owners) to police itself, since that's ultimately who the FIA bows to as you point out. But the American side of me says that innovation is what makes the work go round and indeed WHY people watch F1, so if a team innovates and it's clearly not specified as illegal, it should be legal.

This kind of remind me of the Goodyear vs. Hoosier tire flame war that NASCAR had back in the 1990's. I followed that very closely and it was probably the first crest of waves that made me realize that NASCAR is ultimately monopolistic and therefore deeply flawed. Hoosier is as good a tire as Pirelli or Goodyear or Michelin. They run in many many other racing series'. NASCAR had the right idea in wanting to introduce some competition into the sport (and strategy) by making the two tire manufacturers compete in their supply to a team that picked them. But Goodyear had such a hold on the owners and sporting body (either through alleged kickbacks or promises of future benefits) that this whole charade of "Hoosier Tires being unsafe" erupted (rather, planted by specious on track accidents that either were normal in racing or were not unsafe), spurred on by the media and the people it benefited. Surprise surprise, they went to Goodyear exclusively.

So, yea, I think the increased pit stop idea was a good one, especially if it allowed teams like Force India and Lotus to innovate, but when it really does get to be a safety issue (and that's the $1M question here), then it should be changed. That delamination in P2 was pretty shocking, though.

At least the F1 teams are a group of people and not one guy with all the power (what ruins NASCAR and what split IndyCar) and the FIA is also a group of people with a board of directors from across the globe.

P.S. - In next year's Codemasters' F1 game, I hope they make everyone pit or slide within, say, 10 laps for the first few races. lol..

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Re: F1 being ruined by failing tyres?

Post by luongo27 on 7/19/2013, 5:33 pm

They were testing some new ones at Silverstone earlier today. Thought I would pop along and take a look-see. Here is one, i'll get the rest of the photos sorted over the weekend.




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