"DYNAMIC" WEATHER - NOTICE OF CHANGE

F1 Racers:

As many of you know, one of the endearing feature of F1 is the ability to race in the rain. However, the "dynamic" weather system, as promulgated by F1 2012 does not work correctly. Many of you know this, and many of you have experienced this on our league. The flaw is better explained by another league, with many sub-leagues and deep F1 experience:
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"Sadly, recent events have forced us to again rethink the rules with regards to running dynamic weather in the leagues.

"To put it simply, the dynamic weather system currently doesn't work properly, in the sense that under changeable conditions, the track conditions that different people see and feel (from here on referred to as weather sync) may appear inconsistent and unequal. This seems to be an issue while the track is either drying up, or getting wetter, where the rate of the track's change in grip levels is what can be unequal.

"I'll try to explain in more detail, using this week's F6 league race as an example. Basically, as the race started, the track was damp and slippery - this was the case for me and seemingly most of the other drivers in the race. However, some of the drivers drove off like normal and said that for them, the track looked completely dry, and that they felt no lack of grip. This included the driver who went on to take the lead and win the race - he pulled out a big gap in the first couple of laps (while the damp track was drying up for those affected). For me, having been part of the whole incident, it quite clearly showed that there is still an issue with the weather sync on this game.

"You can watch my video of the race here[see below link], which shows how certain people drive off at the start of the race as if they're on a dry track, while me and others are struggling for grip on the damp surface.

"Obviously, any decision on this matter is not made based only on this one incident. We have heard and read stories from others reporting similar things in the past, and although I personally haven't raced on F1 2012 all that much yet, I have still experienced the issue several times.

"To give you another clear example; I took part in a qualifying session in Spain a couple of months ago, and the track was in the process of drying up after being very wet. Eventually, people started to go out on slick tyres as they see a dry line appearing, and for me the track felt fine on the slicks. However, as I went through turn 3 at normal speed, one of the other drivers is driving around the same corner at snail pace, not finding grip at all on the same tyres - the massive speed difference then resulted in a crash that you can see here[see 2nd link below]. The difference was visual as well, as on my screen there was a clear dry line on the track, while on his screen the track was still wet and shiny.

"I hope what I'm saying makes sense, and that you realize that there's an actual issue with the weather sync - because there is.

"The reason this bug is an issue for us is of course because, when in effect, it makes the racing unfair.

"Like with normal lag and car sync issues, this is something that we can't control with regards to when and where it happens, and in what way different people get affected. The only thing we can do to avoid it, is to avoid the setting that allows it to happen (dynamic weather).

"Like you, we find it a big shame having to remove dynamic weather from the leagues for this game, but if we want the leagues to still offer as fair racing as possible, that's what we have to do. I am pretty sure that most people here - even those of you who may be desperate for dynamic weather to be kept - will be complaining if you end up unfairly losing lots of time to your competitors due to this bug, or if you feel another driver gains an unfair advantage due to it.

"This issue leaves us with 3 possible outcomes:
1. Leave the weather on dynamic for all leagues, which for me is not a realistic option unless all drivers of all leagues are fine with running this risk.
2. Restrict the weather to dry only, in order to avoid the issue and ensure that fair racing is maintained.
3. See if there is a viable method of determining the weather conditions (dynamic excluded) for each race, which can be agreed to by the league's drivers.

"While we await and consider the feedback we get from you - the drivers - on this matter, the weather for the Xbox leagues will be restricted to dry with immediate effect, which means Sunday's league races are to run with clear weather settings. This because it is the safest option while we consider the feedback to see if this is what we have to do, or if there is a different solution.

"We hope you understand our position on this matter, and that whatever is decided, there is a 99% chance that some of you won't agree with it - but keep in mind that we only want to do what is best for the league as a whole to remain a good place to race, and to remain true to the values that ARL is about.

Any constructive feedback is welcome!"


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The solution that this particular league came up with is explained here:

"Determining the weather:
The weather for each race will be determined based on real life weather on the race location at the time of the race. An admin will check the weather at 7:40 pm (20 minutes in advance) on the night of the race - this will determine if the weather is set to Clear, Overcast, Light Rain or Heavy Rain. The site that will be used is wunderground.com, and the admin will locate the weather station closest to each circuit.
The weather will then be posted in a dedicated weather thread, and the coordinators of each league will be told to set the weather to what has been announced.
This idea was brought forward by the community with many positive reactions, so we hope it will work well to bring back some of the unpredictability that is lost by not running dynamic weather, and to give drivers an added challenge of possibly having to race in the wet rather than only racing in the dry.
Everyone are of course free to keep an eye on the weather forecasts themselves throughout the week, but please remember that the forecasts are only predictions and may be unreliable. The weather as it stands at the time of checking is what will be used."

http://www.apexracingleague.com/showthread.php?18665-X360-F1-Leagues-Season-6-Weather-Thread
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Since we are sort of an evolving league, and there is a bug, I'm simply throwing out the question as to whether you guys would prefer to keep the "dynamic" setting as is (bug and all) or go with the sort of system that Apex has created. It would allow us to keep the "dynamic" part (and do our own amateur weather forecasting) but eliminate the bug.

Thoughts?

As we run our race post the real F1 race, we will know what the weather conditions were for the race so could align it accordingly.

That is one way to skin cat. What worries me are the races in Texas, Canada, and Brazil. They may not have finished by the time we start. I guess we could always move it back. I like the ARL system because it allows you to track the weather during the week and get an hourly forecast right before we would actually race. Based on percentage chances for the track location at the time of OUR race, we would go with that *static" weather (clear, overcast, light rain, or full wet).

Problem with your suggestion Owen (and, quite frankly what the "dynamic system" does best) is *alter* the rain intensity during the race and qualy. If they only got the wet-to-dry an vise-verse correct with no unfair synch problems, it would be perfect. But, say, Spain is 1/2 rain and 1/2 dry? There would be no way to simulate that using the "dynamic" setting w/o the bug. If it rains during 1/2 of Spa real race, we can't really do much about it besides choose one side or the other.

With the ARL system, there is an element of surprise (because weather is announced at or near the start of qualy, but it will not change over the course of either, thus eliminating the need for the bug to come into play.

I think I'm being misunderstood - I was suggesting that if it rains at Spa we set the race accordingly for the whole race (not dynamic / changeable).

No, I think I got you. That would surely be easier, to some extent. But let me illustrate my point:

What if Spa is dry for the first lap, wet for the next 5, drizzly for 10, then dries up for the finish? (good choice by the way, it was like this when I went, and seems to be every year). How would we set our race...clear or wet? Maybe have a rule that says if wet/inters are needed for more than 50% of the race, then that's the setting?

I think all the races on the calendar would finish before we start. Even Texas.

Copy/Pasted from "Race 5 Barcelona forum"...

I'm personally a fan of matching the race weather to the current weather at the race locale from the weather website. This method of the weather does 2 things for me:
1. It negates the weather glitch for us.
2. It makes the process of preparing for a race more interesting/realistic.
The real world F1 teams have meteorologists to predict the weather and they watch it like a hawk. In the week leading up to the race they are trying to anticipate the weather for Sunday and figure out what the best setup is going to be for the weather conditions. I enjoy trying to do this as well, especially since our league would run the same tracks as televised F1 in as close to the real world weather conditions as possible.
Choosing the dynamic weather system for the race risks getting the glitch and does away with planning for the real weather...
What to do as far as intermittent rain, I'm not sure what would work best for that.

Any opinion sniper? you are the 2nd.

Sounds like we have a majority, including the series officials, as long as Sniper is on board. If so, we can start to work out the kinks and run the new system after The Spanish Grand Prix. If history is any indicator, Spa will be the acid test. lol.

You might need to make an executive decision if assistant director is unavailable. Although Snipe is pretty reliable so don't be too hasty. Consensus is to align the weather with real life F1 as much as the game allows - gets my vote.

Have to have Snipe on board, I think. I'll PM him. Or ask him during a race.

Ok, Sniper has asked that the system be changed and implemented as proposed ASAP. I have no qualms with doing it for this weekend, as that's what the majority of you would like.


Starting with the Spanish Grand Prix, the weather system will be as follows:

The race thread will be used to announce the weather ahead of each race this season in our league. It can also be used for general weather chat.

The weather site that will be primarily used to determine the weather is www.weather.com. This site was recommended by weather experts. (www.wunderground.com will be used as a backup for historical data). You can determine the "city" and "state" (if applicable) and "country" by looking up the track on wikipedia. On weather.com, it is possible to get hourly forecasts at the place where the circuit is located. The site seem to update very often (how often depends on the location obviously) which should give us the most up-to-date weather available at the time of the race. We will key off of the weather at the LIVE RACE TIME, and not our own Realistic F1 race. This will be done, primarily, by gathering data from two sources:

Before each race, the historical weather weather will be checked at 8:30pm British Time (one hour before the race) and actual race data reviewed (if available). Then, the official game race conditions will be announced in the thread created for that specific race. Currently, OctoberDusk06 will determine the weather and take into account any driver's opinion as to applicable conditions before or after the announcement. The weather will be set by determining the race location and then looking at the two hours ("yesterday's" weather) at the time the actual race was run and apply that data to our race game.

The weather at the actual race will only be a factor in determining the lobby race conditions, but not the determining factor, since everyone may not be able to watch the race and some races will end very close to our start time. Other races of ours, like Germany, will not be in the same town. So, even though the weather site said "light rain" for the first hour and "partly cloudy" at the start of the second hour, the actual race will then give us a better idea.

Some or all of the he following criteria will be applied when making the weather decision:
Clear - Looking Forward: No rain predicted at the time of the actual race, for the two hours during race time. Looking Back: Sunny, mostly sunny, or partly cloudy. No rain fell recorded or fell on race and wet tyres were not used.
Overcast - Looking Forward: Cloudy skies predicted with less than a 30% chance of rain, on average, for the two hours of our race. Looking Back: Mostly cloudy, drizzle. Little or no rain recorded. No wet weather tyres were used or were used for less than 30% of the race by the race winner
Light Rain - Looking Forward: Rain predicted with a 30% to 80% chance of rain predicted, on average, for the two hours during our race. Looking back: Drizzle, Light rain, rain, heavy rain. Less than one-half of an inch of rain was recorded during the race. Intermediate or Full Wet tyres used 30-80% of the race by the race winner.
Heavy Rain - Looking Forward: Rain predicted with a 80% chance or more of rain predicted, on average, for the two hours during our race. Looking Back: Heavy rain, thunderstorm. More than one-half an inch of rain fell on the track during the race. Full Wet tyres were used by the race winner for more than 80% of the race , if official.

The specific weather town/city that will be used to determine the weather for the next race will be announced early on in the week (except for Spain).

Note: If you want to look at the forecasts during the week, it's important to remember that these are only predictions and may not be reliable, since the weather for our race is determined by a host of data, but primarily weather.com and the race itself.