Vettel Admits He'll Defy Orders Again!

I'm completely shocked at Vettel's attitude! a must watch video (don't know if you can watch it in the states, but the transcript is included.

He admits that he'd do it again LINK what a ....ker!

Win at all costs - he wouldn't be welcomed on this site!

god hes a dick if I would fire him

Pimp slap his ass.

spoiled little brat, would love to see him in a marusia

Lol, Del - sack him, Luongo - b!tch slap him, Sniper - the ultimate punishment!!

If I was Webber Id have knocked him clean off the podium roof LOL.

If were really lucky Webber will fill his fuel tank with sugar and put a banana up his tail pipe this weekend LMAO.

I liked Vettel last year, but that was when I thought he was mature and professional... So much for that....

Would be good to see Webber stick one up him!!

I'm going to have to be the lone dissent here. It's the team that's fucked up for giving these sort of stupid ass orders. The drivers are supposed to WIN RACES. He didn't drive dirty. He didn't side swipe Webber (who has made his share of swipes). And he didn't run out of fuel. Why NOT win? Webber should have turned the mix up if he had enough to beat Vettel and get to the finish. Maybe I'm missing a key ingredient, but I don't think Kimi, Senna, or Schumacher would have done any different. If he had doe differently, he would have about as much respect for himself as, say, Massa.

I'm going to start by saying i have more respect for massa than most f1 drivers, and I'd also like evidence of webbers previous 'swipes'. I think Vettel behaved like a child, particularly with his "mark is too slow. get him out of the way" comment. The team agreement had been to race to the last pitstop then hold positions, mark had won that race by a very good margin and was then told to look after his tyres and turn the engine down and did so, not expecting an attack from behind due to the buffer that Vettel was providing from the mercedes (which were too far down the road to do anything anyway). Even the likes of Jenson Button etc have expressed their disbelief at Vettels continued wining about the fact that people seem pissed off at this. I hope that the one positive that comes out of this is that Mark Webber drives at his best when he's angry, remember silverstone 2011 where he was "not bad for a number 2 driver" so we might see some really good performances from him in the coming races. But my main fear is that vettel will have no consequences dished out from within the team due to the almost nanny like love he receives from Helmut Marko. On the whole though this is an interesting situation and one which probably isnt over yet.

Hence why i wil continue my ban on watching F1 consistently until the team orders BS gets cut out of the racing! You want to know why F1 is damn near dead on America - that is why...

Give me some NASCAR. No special tires. No buttons to push to make a car slower or faster....etc etc etc... They may turn LEFT a lot, but those DRIVERS dont give a damn about "orders". WIN THE DAMN RACE. I like Webber. That is why I chose to run Red Bull on our game. F*** Vettel. That b**** only wins because of his damn team!

Bet we wont see a damn thing done....in fact - Did F1 hierarchy not say in the past that "team orders" does not exist, that they race hard and for the win....oh Bernie

Would you like me to educate Harry on the finer points and polotics of F1 sir LMAO

NEWSFLASH: Record crowds gather for U.S. GP in Austin, Texas. Many are reportedly "dead".

F1's popularity is growing by leaps and bounds percentage wise here in the U.S. vis-a-vis NASCAR. Take a look at the T.V. ratings or the crowds. It's the second most popular sport in the world for a reason.

Harry, I agree and disagree with you. I defend my position re: Vettel, and ,any many driver have said "there are no team orders" and many teams have said the same thing, and many FIA officials have said they do not exist. IF they did exist, then let's get on with it -- put the team ahead of the driver, do away with the WDC, and make rules that penalize drivers who disobey team orders. You are right Harry, the REAL reason most F1 fans are there is because of a driver, not a team. The only exception are the tifosi. (And that's why I too respect Massa. He had no choice, really, unless he wanted to be fired. But I still think it bruised his ego badly). It's a deep, dark flaw in F1 that needs to be addressed. But no, they want to keep this Constructor vs. Driver thing going. It's good for the press, as you can see here.
However, that being said, F1 is miles ahead of NASCAR as far as authenticity, technology, brains, talent, and show go. It's not even close. The France's and their Asshole-In-Chief Helton have ruined the sport for the foreseeable future. I could give you hundreds of examples, but you already know what they are. How can an F1 race in Austin Texas be stuffed with fans and at the same time NASCAR cameramen given orders not to pan to crowds too much because they are anemic. I know, I have been to NASCAR races almost every year except for the last few. It's dead to most real race fans. There is no innovation besides cheating. There is no loyalty except to the highest bidder, and there is no consistency in the rules, except when the big shots think it will make it a better show. Count the cautions for every year, get an average per race, then compare it to any other series. It's a joke. They throw them for the show. Nothing is about speed or racing. Green-White-Checkered? Another joke. And I'm not even going into the migration away from the fans who made them famous. It's too bad. They had a good thing. Now, F1 is king. Let's hope they don't ruin it too.

You all have to remember that "I" will always have a skewed view of NASCAR, compared to each of you. I worked in NASCAR in PR for a team full-time and in the shop part-time for 7 years. I have raced 'turning left" since I was 7. I have raced on dirt, clay, concrete and asphalt. I did not have computers to tell me every little detail of my car. I had to learn to race on "feel". I have a NASCAR license that allows me to race in NASCAR competition in any track 2 miles and under in the Camping World Truck Series and Nationwide Series. Now- at 32, it is not happening! But the work, time and miles of track I had to run to get the experience to earn my license was worth it.

Now - I like F1 drivers, Webber and Ralf when he was there. I just dont like the system of rules. Penalized for passing? what? Average good NASCAR operation - 20 million. Average good F1 operation - 120 million OR more. And some of you have said it before, that in F1 it is the CAR and not the driver. So why even pretend you have a drivers championship of only 4-5 guys REALLY have a chance at it? That is why I like the small teams sometimes, the underdogs.

Bleacher Report did a great comparison of the two, where they could learn from one another:




NASCAR No. 5:Qualifying
To begin, I would like to recommend to NASCAR that they take a look at the qualifying system used in F1. In F1 they use a knockout system of qualifying, which has three sessions ranging from 20 to 10 minutes in time with all the drivers out on track at the same time. In each of the first two sessions, seven drivers are eliminated from each session, leaving the top-10 drivers to duke it out in the final session for pole position.

This would be an interesting system to try because it adds a level of excitement that two hot laps just can not match. Think about how crazy qualifying would be at a track like Bristol with all the cars out on track in first session, or Daytona where drivers would probably use the two-car hookups. This system would add excitement and hopefully improve fan attendance for qualifying.


NASCAR No. 4: Driving in the Rain
Driving in the Rain: this one has been the elephant in the room for NASCAR for as long as I can remember. How many times has a little old rain cloud ruined a perfectly good NASCAR race, either causing delays or worse postponing the race until Monday. In F1, many fans welcome rain into the race because it shakes things up and adds another level of excitement to the race.

This year's Canadian GP was one of the best races of the year and it is largely due to the fact that it rained. According to Forbes.com the average NASCAR made $92 million in 2010, how about they take some of that money and develop a windshield wiper that can work and a good wet weather tire.

NOTE - JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE RAIN TIRES AND AN ATTACHABLE WIPER, WE HAVE TESTED THEM BEFORE.


NASCAR No. 3: Parody Among Engine Suppliers and Manufactures
One thing I really enjoy about F1 is seeing some many different manufactures in the sport. In the 2011 season there are 12 teams with four different engine suppliers and in NASCAR there are four engine suppliers but also 20 different teams. In reality though with Dodge only supplying for one team it is more like three suppliers for 19 teams and this has never set well with me.

In 2006, F1 had 11 teams and seven different engine suppliers and this allows for fans to really find a favorite. It allowed for the guy who drove a Honda something to be kind of proud when his team could beat a Ferrari. I think there is room in NASCAR for a few more engine suppliers and manufactures such as Honda, VW, or Hyundai/Kia and I can only see this as being a positive move for NASCAR.


NASCAR No. 2: Embrace Racing as a Global Sport
NASCAR is a sport rooted in its southern heritage and I do admire that NASCAR has stayed close to its roots. NASCAR though needs to realize that this is 2011 and we live in global society. The NFL, NBA, and MLB have all embraced this idea, but no one has done it quite like Formula 1. With a 19-race season, Formula 1 visits 18 different countries on five continents with a field that has drivers from 12 different countries.

NASCAR on the other hand, has some foreign-born drivers, but very few and have almost no international races. I believe NASCAR is trying to add drivers from all around the globe, but I think they are in need of an overseas race. It doesn’t have to be part of the season, but maybe as an exhibition or shootout. The EuroSpeedway or Hockenheim Circuit in Germany or Rockingham in the UK would be great places to host a race and expose thousands of people to the great sport of NASCAR.



NASCAR No/ 1: Technology or the Lack There Of.
This is my biggest gripe with NASCAR, but it seems if they are coming around a little. In terms of racing F1 is at the apex of technology on race cars. Whether it be from carbon fiber, on board telemetry, aerodynamics F1 always finds new and interesting ways to make their cars go faster and ultimately apply the technology to road cars. NASCAR on the other hand kind of works in reverse they still run carburetors, live axles, and four speed transmissions.

Try and find a new car with all three of these things, I’ll save you the trouble because it would be almost impossible. Granted they are moving to fuel injection next season, but they are still miles away from where they should be. Why can’t teams have on board computers to gather data, a six-speed semi-manual transmission, or undertrays for added downforce? Technology should be welcomed into NASCAR not pushed away, it makes the cars better for racing and more relevant to the cars on roads today.



Formula 1 No.5: TV Coverage
This is one area where NASCAR is just head and shoulders above the F1. NASCAR has some of the best TV coverage out there on major channels like ESPN, FOX, ABC, and TNT, where as F1 is on SpeedTV for most of season with a handful of races being shown on FOX.

NASCAR gives pre-,in-, and post-race coverage with good commentators, excellent pit reporting, in-car interviews, and insightful technical explanations. F1 does most of these things just not on the level of NASCAR. If F1 really wants to help itself it needs to be like the Premiere League and find a way back on to ESPN and expose itself to fans seeking an alternative to the oval track racing of NASCAR.


Formula 1 No. 4: Lower Ticket Prices
I love when I hear guys on ESPN saying how expensive going to a baseball or football game is getting. They must have never looked up the price for tickets to go to a F1 race because I think it would be cheaper to go the moon than a F1 race. I recently priced tickets for the Brickyard 400 and they starting price for tickets was $40 which very reasonable, but I also priced tickets for German GP and starting price for grandstand tickets was $330!

That is over eight times as much, but is the racing really eight times better? How is anyone without a trust fund supposed to be able to afford tickets to these races? NASCAR knows that most people want to bring their families to the races and family of four could enjoy a NASCAR, plus food, drinks, and souvenirs for under the price of 1 F1 ticket. So to you Bernie Ecclestone, I ask for you to give your fans a break and lower your ticket prices.


Formula 1 No. 3: Allowing Opportunities to Drivers from Other Series
People outside of F1 tend to perceive as a bit of an elitist club since it is very hard to come by a seat and race for a team. NASCAR on the other hand has pretty much had an open door policy getting drivers from all sorts of different back ground. Juan Pablo Montoya came from F1, Marcos Ambrose came from V8 Supercars from down under, AJ Allmendinger enjoyed success in the Champ Car, and Travis Pastrana comes from a background of primarily motocross and rally racing.

Many F1 pundits questioned current Force India driver Paul Di Resta’s openwheel talent even though he won the German Touring Car championship last year. Just once I would like to see a F1 approach a NASCAR driver and offer them a ride. You can’t tell me a guy like Carl Edwards or Kyle Busch couldn’t give the F1 drivers a run for there money. A team like Virgin, Toro Rosso, or Williams should give that idea a try and see how it pans out for them.

NOTE: THEY DID IT THIS SEASON, YET IT WAS FOR DANICA PATRICK.....not Stewart or Gordon?



Formula 1 No.2:Let the Racers Race Already.
At the beginning of last season, NASCAR implemented a new attitude towards in race conflict and that was “have at it boys”. They began to allow drivers to drive with all the emotion that had once landed them in trouble with the league. F1 needs to go ahead and administer this same attitude with their drivers. It gets old every time a driver may accidentally hits another driver and then gets punished for just going out and racing.

One event that comes to mind in last years Singapore GP Hamilton and Webber had a bit of scruff that was just two drivers trying to get to the apex first. The two drivers collided, but Hamilton’s car sustained damage and was forced out of the race. Many pundits called for Webber to penalized, but to me how could you punish a guy who is just out there doing his job. Most of these incidents are unintentional should the stewards should turn a blind eye to them.

NOTE - GET HIS PUNK ASS, WEBBER



Formula 1 No.1: Too Much Political Drama
This is a bad time to be a sports fan because we are in the middle of two league lockouts and recently had a third that where a league shut down for an entire season. Every season F1 seems to be on verge of a split because the team’s association, FOTA, and the governing body, FIA can not agree about something. Last season it was about a big change in the rules and some of the teams did not like the new rules and threatened to form a separate series. This would have been a catastrophic move for the series and could have ended like the IRL/CART.

NASCAR on the other hand seems like the most stable sport in terms of the relation to drivers and teams or between the teams and league. There has never a missed season in NASCAR’s 62 years and I doubt there will ever be. F1 needs to find some stability in the management and the FIA needs to give it a break on make such drastic rule changes in the years to come. 2013 will be the next big change in F1 with a radical new set of engine and aero regulations and it should be the last for a while.




SO - as you can see, both leagues can learn from each other in many ways. I live in the Southeast, I drive in circles, I use tearoffs and wear glasses under my helmet to keep the clay out. In any fight about NASCAR vs F1, I will always side with NASCAR, as it is what I built my racing towards. In no way do I dislike F1, but I want to see RACING, not the team orders crap that is, and always will be, there. I want to see the F1 cars RACE, like Indycar does. They do touch every now and again, with no penalty. At least THEY learned something from NASCAR and made the DRIVERS the stars. LOL.

BTW - a little German birdie friend of mine has informed me that F1 uses Traction Control......if this is true, WTH are we forcing it off on our series? hahahahaha

These were some GREAT commercials

I was born in Richmond, Virginia and moved to North Carolina about 15 years ago. My first NASCAR race was in 1990 at RIR (before Speedway, Inc. bought it and ruined it) where Bill Elliott and Alan Kulwicki dueled until the end, old school style. I then met Alan Kulwicki at Hooters and his stare went right through me. I have attended approximately 25 NASCAR events from Bristol to Charlotte, to Richmond to Atlanta. I have met many of the drivers, ridden with some, watched the teams test several times at Road Atlanta and been involved with the track owners.

I have also followed F1 and Indy since Nigel Mansell came to the states. I have attended Indy races pre-break up, at Nazareth, post break up IRL at Richmond, and CART at Road America, and many in between. I have met several of the drivers in Indy and interviewed Danica, Ryan Hunter-Ray and Bobby Rahal. My Mom once rode in a car with Paul Newman around Road Atlanta.

I have watched Senna die, got bored when Schumacher dominated and got thrilled again when F1 entered its "Golden Years" which I believe were not the 1970, but started around 2009 and have not stopped. I have attended a race in Spa, Belgium and visited Monza, Italy.

I have been around all sorts of drivers in the feeder series' from Max Papis to Scott Sharp, been involved with helping promote IMSA, motocycle racing, and vintage series' at Road Atlanta. I have met many track owners and watched many teams practice.

I say all this not to brag, but to point out that I am far from being on one side or the other. I have been around and watched F1, IMSA, ALMS, NASCAR, IndyCar, and local dirt tracks many times. You should not shut your eyes and ears to F1. (And I know you don't, otherwise you would not participate or know so much about it). And I admire you for admitting your bias. I have never worked exclusively for one series, but if I do have a bias, it stems from Road Atlanta and falling for road racing in general.

There is a good reason why you don't see NASCAR drivers in F1. It's called talent. Have you ever noticed how many many Indy and F1 drivers can come to NASCAR and almost immediately be fast if given good equipment? Have you ever noticed how many of the best NASCAR drivers first cut their teeth in carting or road racing? (the list is endless -- Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, Ryan Newman, to name a few). There is no such thing as an F1 "ringer" or "just accepting" someone in F1. It takes years to prove that you can actually do it. It doesn't work the other way around. Why? Because it can't. F1 drivers are the best in the world. When you hear that as a promotional line for the Daytona 500, that's exactly what it is...promotion. It's what NASCAR does best. Oval drivers are good at what they do, and some are good all around, and some learn to be pretty good at road racing, but give me a name of a pure NASCAR driver who has gone to another series and won. They don't exist. No serious racer really believes they could. This is not to say there are some drivers IN NASCAR that are not just as talented as your average F1 test driver, but NASCAR does not generate talent. I'll admit NASCAR drivers may be more brave (it takes true guts to drive around for 4 hours at 200 mph which is why I admire the crossover drivers like Mansell the most), more personable, and more daring (remember when F1 pussied out at Indy? That was basically a lack of guts and political too...both points that you make, and are well taken). But they are not faster or more talented. F1 is the apex of not only technology but skill too. That money you speak of does not come easy. And I agree A FEW NASCAR drivers may have a shot at F1, but very few, and very unlikely. Some have even tested, like Jeff Gordon, but even the best Indy drivers like Bourdais and Andretti were not up to speed (granted not in great equipment, and not welcomed with open arms, but every series is guilty of that). IndyCar has probably been the best at diversity, welcoming both black drivers and women drivers decades ago. Women have a rich history in IndyCar. But notice that Sauber has a female test driver this year. She's smoking hot too.

You are right, both F1 and NASCAR have a major problems. If anything, IndyCar is the best example of both diversity of drivers and diversity of skill. (Although the article you cite is from "Bleacher Report - Turner Sports Network, part of the Turner Sports and Entertainment Network." Come on now...talk about bias. Turner only had the NASCAR TV contract). The "politics and drama" you cite as the major flaw is precisely why F1 works...because it's NOT a monopoly ruled by an iron fist (I know it seems that way with Bernie, but he is largely a figurehead...dig deeper than that). That, and the sheer technological brilliance and true, pure racing speed. Sure you will have a lot of passing when you put 40 cars with restrictor plates on an oval, but, again, that's by DESIGN. One of the reasons F1 is in it's Golden Years now is because of all the sheer brilliance at making the ADVANCEMENT of technology an aid to passing (DRS, KERS, etc.), not its suppression.

If it were not for NASCAR, I never would have fallen in love with racing. I will never forget how fast the cars blew by me when I first saw them. NASCAR is also in my blood, but I have become disillusioned with NASCAR, like millions of fans in the United States. I didn't "switch sides" but NASCAR simply lost me due to it's above failings yes, but more because the sport is engineered to be entertainment. NASCAR is, at it's core, like a three ring circus. Bruton Smith has said so to me in as many words. Every decision in NASCAR comes from the top down and rules are changed from the top, usually according to what will please the fans, not what will make the sport better racing. As you know, NASCAR is ruled with an iron fist. This makes watching it a bit like watching pro wrestling. Sure, it's great fun, sure the coverage is top notch (although I'd argue you cannot compare the coverage we get here with the coverage in, say, Britain with Sky) and sure the personalities are what drives the sport. But you see, that's all by design. Nobody is better at marketing than NASCAR, but they have marketed themselves out of credibility, in my humble opinion.

While I agree that F1 prices are outrageous, people pay them. It's like going to a Broadway show. You can do it cheaply, but not if you want the real experience of the best of the best.

Regarding traction control, here is the official F1 rule and then an explanation of the history:

9.3 Traction control
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive torque demand by the driver.
Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted.

"One of the clearest areas of the much spoken of 'cross over' between Formula One and road cars is traction control. And although built to perform slightly different purposes - in ordinary cars ensuring stability under everyday use, in Formula One delivering the maximum amount of power to the road at all times - the fundamental principles remain very similar.

Formula One cars are massively powerful. Even with the grip of modern racing tyres and the assistance of aerodynamic downforce, they are still capable of 'breaking traction' or developing wheelspin up to very high speeds, especially under the loads imposed by cornering. This is inefficient, slows the car down and can damage tyres. Traction control therefore gives drivers a competitive advantage.

To understand traction control it is best to consider the 'traction circle'. The tyres of a Formula One car, like any car, can only offer a certain amount of grip. This can be the longitudinal grip used for braking and accelerating in a straight line, or the lateral grip required for cornering - or a combination of the two. Judging the exact 'mixture' of acceleration and cornering grip that can be extracted from the tyre is one of the hardest tasks faced by a racing driver - too much will result in a 'power slide', too little will see the car putting in a slow time. And it is in this that traction control is of the greatest assistance to drivers.

Not that traction control gets rid of the need for driver skill. The highly 'aggressive' systems on a Formula One car will allow a car to operate very close to the edges of the tyres' capability. But simply travelling around every corner on full throttle would have a very serious impact on the tyres' life and require more frequent pit stops. Discretion is still called for.

Traction control is not new to Formula One motorsport. It has been around in various guises since the 1980s, and cars like the 1992 Williams-Renault FW14-B which took Nigel Mansell to his drivers' championship title were even more electronic-packed than the current cars - featuring computer-controlled active suspension in addition. After a long period during which traction control was banned, the FIA decided to re-allow its use at the start of the 2002 season as it was becoming increasingly difficult to prove that ECUs (Engine Control Units) were not being used to replicate traction control functions.

As with systems on road cars, Formula One traction control works by a comparison of wheel and track speeds, the information gathered by electronic sensors. If the wheel is travelling quicker than the road it is passing over then the engine will be progressively throttled back to prevent wheelspin. In the past this technology was also used in 'launch control' systems, which allowed drivers to make optimum starts. These were outlawed ahead of the 2004 season.

And traction control will be again be outlawed altogether from the start of the 2008 season, when the introduction of standardised ECUs to the cars will make policing the ban far easier than in the past."

Your German birdie is mistaken. Traction Control will remain banned.

*Off my soapbox*

Harry, you are the better diplomat anyway. Those were some great commercials. The swap between Hamilton and Stewart at Watkins Glen was priceless. More of that is needed.

P.S. - Sebastian Loeb is the best driver in the world anyway.

LOL - You caught me - I do know a lot more than I put on about F1.

BUT - THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL...that I will EVER say their drivers are better than ours. NO WAY I will say that! I have seen more than a few of the former F1 drivers come over and NOT ONLY not be good in our cars, hell not even good in Indycars.

That is what I watch in open wheel. Indycar. Those guys have balls in open wheel comp. They run on road course, street courses and ovals. That is my open wheel series of choice.

IMO - I think that the best driver in the world is Tony Stewart. Not my favorite driver, but the guy can win in ALL series. Indycar, USAC, World of Outlaws, NASCAR.....I bet you put him in an F1, he would hold his own EASILY.

BTW! Where is our REAL LIFE NASCAR CHAT and REAL LIFE INDYCAR CHAT sections! LOL! I would live in that area of the site! You want to see blogging and commentary? Give me that section to roam around in!